Legislature(1993 - 1994)

03/25/1994 01:15 PM House JUD

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
txt
  Number 441                                                                   
                                                                               
  SB 151 - OIL & GAS EXPLORATION CREDITS                                       
                                                                               
  REP. JOE GREEN, testified that SB 151 is a companion bill to                 
  HB 199, which was the exploration licensing bill; this being                 
  a companion bill in that it is another encouragement to get                  
  some sort of delineation, or discoveries in remote areas of                  
  the state.  This bill would allow the commissioner of                        
  Natural Resources to grant relief on taxes to a company or                   
  companies that spent money that would be acceptable to the                   
  commissioner as exploration dollars, up to a limit, against                  
  either their existing production taxes or against the                        
  development of something that they might find in the areas                   
  they are looking at.  I have for the committees review a                     
  handout which could help explain the differences between                     
  this tax incentive and an existing tax incentive program                     
  that has been on the books since statehood.  Rep. Green                      
  further testified that this bill applies to unleased state                   
  land and private land as well and does not just confine                      
  itself to taxes from state land.  The dollar limit under the                 
  current program is five million allowable per company for                    
  each operation.  The concept there is that five million is a                 
  pretty small amount in relation to the total program.  SB
  151 would have a sunset in ten years.  The concept there is                  
  to get some activity in a close time frame so that the time                  
  it takes from discovery to development would ensure the                      
  solvency.  The confidentiality provision in the existing                     
  credits is that a person can drill an exploratory well where                 
  there is unleased land around that well, he can request the                  
  commissioner hold the material confidential so it does not                   
  become a benefit to people who might bid on adjacent land.                   
  That provision has been in law for some time.  SB 151 puts a                 
  maximum cap of two years on the confidentiality provisions.                  
  This is a credit allowance and all the dollars have to be                    
  approved by the commissioner.  If this bill is passed there                  
  would be a maximum of fifty percent of the expenses, not to                  
  exceed five million, done on state land, and up to                           
  twenty-five percent of that done on private land.                            
                                                                               
  Number 573                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. PHILLIPS inquired on page 2, line 30, section E, the                    
  amount of the exploration explained there is determined by                   
  the commissioner.  Is that a normal procedure, he asked, and                 
  how they will develop those guidelines as far as limits that                 
  normally occur?                                                              
                                                                               
  Number 580                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. GREEN responded that the commissioner determines what                   
  is eligible and quite often, what is negotiated before hand                  
  is a situation like, "I'm going to go out and drill on this                  
  land and I'm going to have these kinds of costs."                            
                                                                               
  Number 582                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. PHILLIPS inquired whether other states have these kind                  
  of incentive credits.                                                        
                                                                               
  Number 589                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. GREEN responded that there are incentive credits in                     
  other states which are to a greater or lesser extent.  In                    
  Texas, they don't have the undrilled land that we do in                      
  Alaska.                                                                      
                                                                               
  Number 595                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN PORTER inquired as to whether, for the record, it                   
  could be explained the difference between the state benefits                 
  from drilling on and discoveries on private land verses                      
  state land.                                                                  
                                                                               
  Number 598                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. GREEN responded that the benefit would be is that where                 
  they are adjacent, and the well is in close proximity, say                   
  within a lease of two by two square miles, there would be a                  
  significant interest to the state because the field might be                 
  large enough to extend on state land.  But in the other                      
  areas, let's say this is on Native land, but perhaps several                 
  miles from the nearest state border, it would be relative                    
  small value.  There would still be value because there would                 
  be an area you could tie seismic work to.                                    
                                                                               
  Number 626                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN PORTER inquired into the revenue differences to the                 
  state from producing on state land versus private land.                      
                                                                               
  Number 628                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. GREEN responded we wouldn't have any royalties from                     
  private land.  We would have severance and ad valorem taxes.                 
                                                                               
  Number 630                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. NORDLUND inquired as to what the credits that would                     
  apply towards payments and obligations, would that be for                    
  any obligations that might be due on that particular project                 
  or would it be overall taxes or obligations owed by the                      
  company to the state.                                                        
                                                                               
  Number 640                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. GREEN responded that it could be either.                                
                                                                               
  Number 644                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. NORDLUND responded that we are diminishing some of the                  
  resources available to the state to encourage companies to                   
  drill on private land.                                                       
                                                                               
  Number 647                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. GREEN responded that that is why it is reduced to                       
  twenty-five percent as opposed to fifty percent.  This only                  
  means that the commissioner has the right to do this.  He                    
  could go as high as fifty percent, but he never has.                         
                                                                               
  Number 664                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. NORDLUND expressed his concern regarding Natural                        
  Resources commissioners having discretion over the credits                   
  and whether the commissioner would have the best interests                   
  of the state in mind when granting credits.                                  
                                                                               
  Number 667                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. GREEN responded that the commissioner must show cause                   
  why he would think that this particular case be granted                      
  credits.                                                                     
                                                                               
  Number 672                                                                   
                                                                               
  KEN BOYD, Deputy Director, Division of Oil and Gas,                          
  testified that Representative Green pretty much covered SB
  151 and he would respond to questions, if any.  He further                   
  added that the fifty million was a total over the life of                    
  the bill.                                                                    
                                                                               
  Number 691                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. PHILLIPS inquired why there was a ten year sunset in                    
  this legislation.                                                            
                                                                               
  Number 700                                                                   
                                                                               
  MR. BOYD responded that the rationale was to try the program                 
  and see if it works and whether this type of incentive would                 
  lead to increased exploration.                                               
                                                                               
  Number 711                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. PHILLIPS inquired about the two year confidentiality                    
  provision.                                                                   
                                                                               
  Number 713                                                                   
                                                                               
  MR. BOYD responded that right now on state land the                          
  confidentiality provision is guaranteed for two years.  At                   
  the end of that period of time a company can come in and ask                 
  for an extension of the confidentiality period.                              
                                                                               
  Number 732                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. PHILLIPS responded that in light of the ten year sunset                 
  provision, the two year confidentiality provision was                        
  probably okay.                                                               
                                                                               
  Number 736                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. NORDLUND inquired whether the fiscal note, which is a                   
  zero fiscal note that definitely has a fiscal impact, would                  
  actually result in a revenue loss to the state.                              
                                                                               
  Number 747                                                                   
                                                                               
  CARL MEYER, Income and Excise Division, Department of                        
  Revenue, testified that the fiscal note was put together on                  
  the basis that it would be difficult to determine what type                  
  of credit might be granted.  He further stated that there                    
  was no way to be absolutely certain what types of credits                    
  would be granted.  He felt that it would probably be around                  
  twenty-five million.  So the top would be twenty-five                        
  million, but it could in fact be less than that.                             
                                                                               
  Number 766                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. NORDLUND felt that a cost/benefit analysis should be                    
  conducted to determine if the state comes out in balance.                    
                                                                               
  Number 775                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. KOTT responded that while there is a cost to the                        
  exploration credit, there would be future revenue which                      
  would offset or balance out the cost.                                        
                                                                               
  Number 782                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. GREEN further responded that even if you select an                      
  arbitrary number of wells, that still doesn't mean that                      
  there's twenty-five million at which fifty percent is                        
  applied.  It is still up to the commissioner to grant what                   
  he will.                                                                     
                                                                               
  Number 789                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN PORTER inquired whether any credit would be given                   
  if no oil was found.                                                         
                                                                               
  Number 793.                                                                  
                                                                               
  REP. GREEN responded that that was not necessarily true.  An                 
  oil company could drill a dry hole and still get credit if                   
  they have other producing activity.                                          
                                                                               
  Number 795                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. PHILLIPS inquired whether the passage of SB 151 would                   
  positively further exploration in Alaska.                                    
                                                                               
  Number 799                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. GREEN responded yes.  This is the kind of legislation                   
  that is more valuable to the industry than the number of                     
  dollars that are included.  It sends a very positive message                 
  that the state of Alaska is saying they truly want to                        
  compete for industry dollars, along with third world                         
  countries, etc.                                                              
                                                                               
  Number 810                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. NORDLUND again expressed concern over a commissioner                    
  granting a credit without having the best interest of the                    
  state in mind.  He doesn't see this provision in SB 151 and                  
  that it would be appropriate to require that in this                         
  legislation.                                                                 
                                                                               
  Number 820                                                                   
                                                                               
  MR. BOYD responded that it would be very difficult to                        
  mandate such a provision.  Our current state law has                         
  provided a benefit to the state, he said, but it is hard to                  
  substantiate it.  The benefit to the state is immediate                      
  because at the very least the state would gain valuable                      
  information as to the mineral content of the land.                           
                                                                               
                                                                               
  REP. NORDLUND inquired whether an oil company would drill a                  
  well anyway, even without an exploration credit.                             
                                                                               
  Number 846                                                                   
                                                                               
  Mr. BOYD responded that there is no way to determine whether                 
  they would or not.  But without SB 151, if they did, the                     
  state would not get the data on the land.                                    
                                                                               
  Number 853                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. PHILLIPS informed the committee that during her last                    
  national Energy Council meeting, the energy minister for                     
  Alberta reported to our body that she had approved nine                      
  thousand last year alone and on her desk as of January 1,                    
  1994, she had application permits for ten thousand                           
  additional exploratory wells.  In the United States 569                      
  permits were offered for wells and in Alaska 11 were                         
  offered.  She felt SB 151 was bound to help.                                 
                                                                               
  Number 872                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. NORDLUND informed the committee he didn't oppose this                   
  legislation, but he wanted some of his concerns addressed.                   
                                                                               
  Number 878                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. KOTT motioned that CSSB 151 be moved from committee                     
  with individual recommendations and a zero fiscal note.                      
                                                                               
  Number 884                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN PORTER, hearing no objection, declared CSSB 151                     
  moved from committee.                                                        

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